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Traveller-digest     Thursday, December 9 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1468<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: The Rise and Supposed Decline of the RPG Empire<BR>
SEC : UNCLASSIFED - re: Well guys, there goes our salvage...<BR>
Law: Precedent v. Code (Was: Re: Mass communication, the nobility and epistemology (LONG))<BR>
Re: Postman, CCGs, Communications Variability <BR>
Re: The Rise and Supposed Decline of the RPG Empire<BR>
Re: electronic warfare<BR>
RE: Hey there<BR>
Re: the stresses of being a grunt (was electronic warfare)<BR>
Re: Postman, CCGs, Communications Variability (Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1461)<BR>
Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED OT: To hit ratios<BR>
Re: New Pictures<BR>
Re: One day, one day....<BR>
Re: The Rise and Supposed Decline of the RPG Empire<BR>
Re: Swordworlder<BR>
Re DCX<BR>
Re DCX<BR>
Re Nobles<BR>
Re: Swordworlder<BR>
Just How Charted *is* Charted Space?<BR>
Re: 3D star maps<BR>
Re: Well guys, there goes our salvage...<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 01:42:17 -0800<BR>
From: Keith Johnson <keithalanjohnson@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Rise and Supposed Decline of the RPG Empire<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 17:49:21 -0800 (PST)<BR>
>From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
><BR>
>It has been written by the heretic Keith Jackson:<BR>
<BR>
Excuse me as I find some MIB's to kick down your door and drag you away for <BR>
"reeducation".  ;)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>One twentieth? Somehow that doesn't seem right. I say,<BR>
>thank the CCGs, for they have done a service and taken<BR>
>the Rule Lawyers from our games. Rule Lawyers never<BR>
>roleplayed, they just wanted to know all the rules so<BR>
>that they could prevent their set of statistics on the<BR>
>character sheet all being reduced to zero. Rules<BR>
>Lawyers for this reason were also a source of<BR>
>munchkinism. But most of them have gone to CCGs, since<BR>
>CCGs are nothing but rules, no imagination required.<BR>
>For this reason, I always have a pack of cards, magic,<BR>
>or whatever's the cheapest, in case some new player<BR>
>turns out to be a Rules Lawyer or munchkin. I hand him<BR>
>that (him ain't sexist, never met a female gamer who<BR>
>was a rules lawyer or munchkin) and we're all happy.<BR>
<BR>
Ironically, I know of several people who were very good roleplayers who <BR>
switched to playing nothing but CCGs simply because all of their gaming <BR>
buddies were also spending cash on CCGs, and not RPGs.  They didn't have to <BR>
worry about the gamers flaking an cancelling at the last minute, what time <BR>
the game started or ends, or if the plot was going to get boring or <BR>
not.  Get anyone who plays the game together, pull out your decks, and you <BR>
are set for about an hour or two.  The thing that made me stop buying CCGs <BR>
wasn't the fact that there were wasn't roleplaying potential for it, rather <BR>
if your buddy has more money invested in having the rare ultra cool cards, <BR>
odds were against you winning.<BR>
<BR>
Regardless, any chunk of the RPG market (including Rules Lawyers) who stop <BR>
buying games and start up another hobby, hurts the industry.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>If RPGs are declining so much, why are there so bloody<BR>
>many? The dream of GURPS has been realised, you can<BR>
>roleplay anything, even a cowboy hunting undead, for<BR>
>god's sake.<BR>
<BR>
It was clunky as all hell, but I could do that back when I first bought <BR>
Champions.  On the other hand, Hero Games, is a company that seems to be on <BR>
life support right now.<BR>
<BR>
I personally believe that the industry is getting stronger.  It took <BR>
several *serious* hits in the last few years, and things were shaken up <BR>
pretty severely.  However, I don't believe that there are more *active* <BR>
companies right now than there were in the past.  IMHO, the strongest <BR>
companies are consolidating their hold of the industry and churning out <BR>
tons and tons of supplements.  In between the big guys are a few companies <BR>
making a decent showing, and a lot of fly by night operations that flare <BR>
momentarily and then vanish into obscurity.  As far as I can tell, the <BR>
entire market isn't even remotely the size it was during the late eighties <BR>
or early nineties, however it is improving dramatically.<BR>
<BR>
I think that there are a lot of games on the shelves, simply because to <BR>
sell a game, you need to hook someone and then pump out supplement after <BR>
supplement to feed their addiction and pay your bills.  Just take a look at <BR>
how huge the White Wolf, TSR, SJ Games, and Palladium Games sections of <BR>
your game store is compared to say, Holistic Design or Dream Pod 9.  A lot <BR>
of supplements of a few companies, a smattering of rare games, products of <BR>
terminally ill/dead companies and obscure games tend to fill up the <BR>
retailers shelves.<BR>
<BR>
The few major companies put out tons of material.  They are trying to win <BR>
back the market by being aggressive.  Supplements = <BR>
advertising.  Supplements don't sell as well as the core rulebooks, but the <BR>
money you lose on them are made up by sales of the core rulebooks. Those <BR>
major companies, like it or not, tend to be the lifeblood of the industry, <BR>
since they draw the majority of the gamers into the store in the first <BR>
place.  Retailers stock up on those supplements, even though they don't <BR>
sell nearly as well as the core rulesbooks.  The end result is that you <BR>
have huge shelf spaces taken up by Vampire Clanbooks, GURPS Genrebooks and <BR>
AD&D's Complete Book of Fill-In-The-Blanks.  Most likely, some of those <BR>
books will be sitting on those shelves for a long long time, simply because <BR>
no one in your area has a desire to pick up the Euthanatos Tradition Book, <BR>
while the Tzimisce Clanbook is flying off the shelves.<BR>
<BR>
Medium sized companies make enough to pay the bills with a very small <BR>
staff, and thus the rate new books that are released is significantly <BR>
different compared to, say, SJ Games.  They have enough loyal customers to <BR>
make a retailer stock them, however they don't fly off the shelves like the <BR>
major companies.  DP9's Southern Republic Leaguebook is going to have a <BR>
much longer shelf life than the Ravnos Clanbook will.  Where these games <BR>
thrive the most is on the internet, and online stores, where Heavy Gear <BR>
fans scattered over the globe can get the latest fix of life on Terra <BR>
Nova.  Odds are their local game store doesn't have racks of DP9 books, and <BR>
if they do, I bet they don't have racks of Fading Suns, or Star Trek, or ...<BR>
<BR>
The smaller companies don't tend to put much out at all.  A book here, a <BR>
book there.  The interest for a relatively small game isn't that <BR>
stimulated, and so the books aren't flying off the shelves.  Thus, they <BR>
make less money back, and it takes longer for them to put out another <BR>
book.  Usually, when you see their book in the game store, it's the same <BR>
book you saw last week.  Not only that, but the company might have gone out <BR>
of business a few years ago, and the book is still sitting on the shelves.<BR>
<BR>
With all that said, I believe that the sales of RPGs are steadily getting <BR>
better and better.  The major companies have generally revamped their <BR>
systems and poured new lifeblood into their books.  White Wolf, for <BR>
example, has cut out a lot of the crap they did in their previous works, <BR>
and focused on fine tuning their game system and stimulated the interest of <BR>
players by making a more interesting and engaging setting.  Most players <BR>
are flocking to the store to buy one of the major companies products, and <BR>
then from their they branch out into other games.  Vampire fans become Mage <BR>
fans, which become Fading Suns or Over the Edge fans.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>There has been a decline, I agree, but not _that_ much.<BR>
<BR>
While I agree that 1/20th sounds pretty crazy, the people quoting it are <BR>
the ones with their fingers on the pulse of the industry.  Now, since the <BR>
sampling of how well games sell is not even remotely exact, I have no doubt <BR>
that that figure is off a bit.  Game companies and distributors don't <BR>
exactly share their financial data, and any sampling will be bound to be <BR>
inaccurate.  How much, and in what direction, I have no clue.<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I'm not that suprised with that figure.  Remember Hero Games, <BR>
Iron Crown, R. Talsorian or West End Games?  They aren't dead, but they <BR>
certainly aren't moving very fast.  :(<BR>
_________________________________________________________<BR>
Rev. Keith Johnson      /\     keith@sjgames.com<BR>
Assistant Webmaster    /()\    keithalanjohnson@home.com<BR>
Steve Jackson Games   /____\   reverendkeith@hotmail.com<BR>
  IMTU tm+ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+<BR>
_________________________________________________________ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 20:57:57 +1100<BR>
From: "David Healey" <David.Healey@dcb.defence.gov.au><BR>
Subject: SEC : UNCLASSIFED - re: Well guys, there goes our salvage...<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:50:17 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: re: Well guys, there goes our salvage...<BR>
<BR>
>From: isteve@outhere.f9.co.uk <BR>
<BR>
>How do people handle salvage rights?  For that <BR>
>matter, how do they work in the real world?<BR>
<BR>
<<Much Snippage>><BR>
<BR>
Can we have a GT:Law instead of GT:Nobles ?  8-P<BR>
<BR>
If that's a small treatise on salvage law (and I thank Glenn for his insight, no really, I learned something from that), then what can we expect on some of the other common starship concerns ?<BR>
<BR>
Dave<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             !<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 02:04:40 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Law: Precedent v. Code (Was: Re: Mass communication, the nobility and epistemology (LONG))<BR>
<BR>
Glenn M. Goffin <gmgoffin@pacbell.net> wrote:<BR>
> > From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
<snip><BR>
> I don't think that the concept of law -- at least as actually practiced,<BR>
> as opposed to perceived -- has changed significantly as a result of any<BR>
> of these technologies.  None of them are well suited to reasoned<BR>
> discourse, and that is still the essence of the modern practice of law.<BR>
> Sensational cases have always been with us, but they have only<BR>
> tangential effects on the practice or development of the law.  Those<BR>
> tangential effects are limited to legislative response to public<BR>
> perception.  None of the cases you mentioned has had any effect on the<BR>
> law itself.<BR>
<BR>
A very good point.  Here in the uSA, most folks believe<BR>
the perception and don't bother to learn the truth.  The<BR>
united States Constitution is still the supreme law of the<BR>
land and each state has a constitution and that<BR>
constitution is still the supreme law of that state.  If you<BR>
understand our legal system, you will find that most of the<BR>
codes in fact do not apply to you unless you allow them<BR>
to.  Most of the codes are blatantly unconstitution, except<BR>
for one little thing.  Legally speaking, "shall" and "must"<BR>
means "may."  So, where the code says something like,<BR>
"In order to use public hiways and roads, a driver must be<BR>
licenced by the D.M.V."  What it really means is, "In order<BR>
to use public hiways and roads, a driver may be licenced<BR>
by the D.M.V."<BR>
<BR>
I tried to explain to someone why I don't have a driver's<BR>
licence and he just wouldn't understand.  In spite of the<BR>
spin doctors press to the contrary, we still live in a<BR>
republic and those who are willing can still live as free<BR>
solvereigns.  The right to travel is still guarenteed by the<BR>
uS Constitution (9th Ammendment) and I still have the<BR>
right to travel without interferance by anyone, including<BR>
people in costume who claim to be public servants<BR>
provided I don't break the law (and I don't mean the<BR>
code, most of which does not apply to me anyway).<BR>
<BR>
I tried to explain that getting a licence would obligate me<BR>
in ways that I didn't want to be obligated and that I could<BR>
avoid, just by not having a drivers licence.  I explained<BR>
that I didn't drive and he said that he had seen me driving.<BR>
I told him that legally speaking, I no longer drove, which is<BR>
a commercial activity, but he just couldn't or wouldn't<BR>
understand.  But, that okay, he doesn't have to as long as<BR>
I do.  And I guarentee you that the judges understand it<BR>
quite well.<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav:  I suggested adding a little ethical spice to a<BR>
senario offered a few days ago that is based upon this<BR>
very idea.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 02:03:26 -0800<BR>
From: Keith Johnson <keithalanjohnson@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Postman, CCGs, Communications Variability <BR>
<BR>
At 04:47 AM 12/9/99 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >I don't think that it's CRPGs which are pulling from the market. I think<BR>
> >that it's just computer games in general. Computer games are capable of<BR>
> >offering many of the same sorts of things that RPGs do. The old-fashioned GM<BR>
> >has been replaced by the level designer. Computer games are hassle free.<BR>
> >Your average kid can come home from school, get on the net and play Quake<BR>
> >III or Unreal Tournament for a few hours, while RPGs require much more<BR>
> >structure, and much more hassle.<BR>
<BR>
D'oh!  Leave it to me to rant about something, and then notice you said <BR>
something completely different when I reread what you really said.  I hope <BR>
reply didn't generate any bad vibes.<BR>
<BR>
I totally agree with your assessment of computer games.  I said CRPGs, but <BR>
I should have said computers games in general.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> >I'd wager money that most of the people on this list, even though they<BR>
> >consider themselves roleplayers, aren't currently involved in a campaign.<BR>
> >That's not an attack on anybody, that's merely the reality of the situation.<BR>
<BR>
I am involved in about four different campaigns that meet at least once a <BR>
month, one of them meeting twice a month.  As for Traveller, I play it <BR>
whenever I run a convention game (three to four times a year).  My current <BR>
batch of players *hate/loathe* most sci fi games. :(<BR>
<BR>
_________________________________________________________<BR>
Rev. Keith Johnson      /\     keith@sjgames.com<BR>
Assistant Webmaster    /()\    keithalanjohnson@home.com<BR>
Steve Jackson Games   /____\   reverendkeith@hotmail.com<BR>
  IMTU tm+ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+<BR>
_________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 23:14:22 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: The Rise and Supposed Decline of the RPG Empire<BR>
<BR>
On 8 Dec 99, at 17:49, Kyle Schuant wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> One twentieth? Somehow that doesn't seem right. I say,<BR>
> thank the CCGs, for they have done a service and taken<BR>
> the Rule Lawyers from our games. Rule Lawyers never<BR>
> roleplayed, they just wanted to know all the rules so<BR>
> that they could prevent their set of statistics on the<BR>
> character sheet all being reduced to zero. Rules<BR>
> Lawyers for this reason were also a source of<BR>
> munchkinism. But most of them have gone to CCGs, since<BR>
> CCGs are nothing but rules, no imagination required.<BR>
> For this reason, I always have a pack of cards, magic,<BR>
> or whatever's the cheapest, in case some new player<BR>
> turns out to be a Rules Lawyer or munchkin. I hand him<BR>
> that (him ain't sexist, never met a female gamer who<BR>
> was a rules lawyer or munchkin) and we're all happy.<BR>
> <BR>
> If RPGs are declining so much, why are there so bloody<BR>
> many? The dream of GURPS has been realised, you can<BR>
> roleplay anything, even a cowboy hunting undead, for<BR>
> god's sake.<BR>
> <BR>
> There has been a decline, I agree, but not _that_ much.<BR>
<BR>
Come back over here, Kyle. There's effectively no retail outlet for <BR>
rpgs in the lower North Island (that I know of, anyway). This means <BR>
that those of us without Credit Cards have no cost effective way of <BR>
buying new product.<BR>
<BR>
RPGs may be thriving, but not here.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 23:14:22 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: electronic warfare<BR>
<BR>
On 8 Dec 99, at 22:24, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Actually, I can see another possibile solution, if electronics keeps<BR>
> getting smaller/cheaper, and computing power keeps on climbing for a<BR>
> while.<BR>
> <BR>
> Just "seed" the area with disposable, short-ranged encrypted relays.<BR>
> Actually "relay" is a bad term. More like an IP router. <BR>
> <BR>
> So you are only transmitting to the nearest router, which sends<BR>
> packets to other routers according top whatever looks like the best<BR>
> route that millisecond. After a few hops it hits the bigger routers at and<BR>
> behind your lines. <BR>
> <BR>
> Between spread spectrum and low power, you'd be lucky to pick up the<BR>
> transmitters the *soldiers* are using from even a klick away. <BR>
> <BR>
> If the routers are small and cheap enough, you just lob them in along with<BR>
> the "softening up" artillery barrage. <BR>
<BR>
A mobile mobile phone system.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 23:14:22 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Hey there<BR>
<BR>
On 8 Dec 99, at 20:46, Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> And God help us all if it is ;)<BR>
> Jesse<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> There are LOTS of Vickers floating around. The more genealogy research I<BR>
> do, the more amazed I am at how many we are. Maybe its a plot ;)<BR>
> <BR>
> Thomas Vickers<BR>
<BR>
That would explain their involvement in machinegun production (bye, bye <BR>
competition).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 23:14:22 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: the stresses of being a grunt (was electronic warfare)<BR>
<BR>
On 8 Dec 99, at 18:41, Kyle Schuant wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav: will the soldiers of the future be physical<BR>
> wimps because all their stuff has been miniturised?<BR>
> My personal feeling is that as stuff gets shrunk or<BR>
> disposed of, the Army just finds more crap for you to<BR>
> lug about, amazing the useless bits of kit they foist<BR>
> upon us (mosquito nets while we're on a snowy<BR>
> mountain, sleeping bags in deserts, etc)<BR>
<BR>
Basic rule of the Infantry: nothing ever gets replaced, merely <BR>
supplemented.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 23:14:22 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Postman, CCGs, Communications Variability (Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1461)<BR>
<BR>
On 8 Dec 99, at 23:30, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I'd wager money that most of the people on this list, even though they<BR>
> consider themselves roleplayers, aren't currently involved in a campaign.<BR>
> That's not an attack on anybody, that's merely the reality of the<BR>
> situation.<BR>
<BR>
I am, but only once per fortnight. However most of us aren't at school <BR>
any more. When I was at school we would play a couple of hours in the <BR>
week, plus about 6 in the weekend, every school week. It's simple <BR>
degeneracy in the modern youth, that's all :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 23:14:22 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED OT: To hit ratios<BR>
<BR>
On 9 Dec 99, at 15:02, Hughes, Michael wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I was watching a current affairs prog late night on tellie a few months<BR>
> agao and the guests were an academic who had written a book on men in<BR>
> combat, the other a COL from the US army, ex special forces. <BR>
> <BR>
> In regards to percentage hit ratios the COL remarked (to the effect of);<BR>
> "An excellent in combat hit ratio is 40% for police or infantry. In a<BR>
> recent school yard shooting spree, the two kids were getting rates of<BR>
> 80-90%" <please don't flame on the numbers, it was some time ago>.<BR>
> <BR>
> When asked of why these children had 'scored' so highly, the COL put it<BR>
> down to the ever increasing realism of combat simulators in arcades which<BR>
> had given these children the ability to shoot at real people as they were<BR>
> so much more like the targets in the game (as opposed to silhouettes). <BR>
<BR>
Could it simply be that those kids were not being shot at? Or that they <BR>
had no empathy for others? Either (or both) of these reasons could <BR>
equally well explain their high hit rate, as could the lack of <BR>
effective evasion by their victims.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 02:19:32 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: New Pictures<BR>
<BR>
Mike Linsenmayer <mlinsenmayer@symantec.com> wrote:<BR>
> I posted a new picture of the 'Blue Moon' a 100 ton scout ship.<BR>
> http://www.bigbailey.com/vspace/art/picture-d.htm<BR>
<BR>
What a beauty!<BR>
<BR>
> And I am working an expansive starport scene, kinda tech 9 ish. take a<BR>
look at<BR>
> what I have so far... be kind, let me know what you think should be added<BR>
taken<BR>
> away etc.<BR>
> http://www.bigbailey.com/vspace/art/projects_under_construction.htm<BR>
<BR>
Cool!  The only thing that is missing as far as I can see<BR>
is a starship.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
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<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 02:22:20 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: One day, one day....<BR>
<BR>
Antony Farrell <Skaran@bigpond.com> wrote:<BR>
> Actually the best game is when the West Coast Eagles played the Ithklur<BR>
> Wanderers. The Eagles won the game by a point but the Ithklur had more<BR>
> players still alive at full time.<BR>
<BR>
What is full time?<BR>
<BR>
Confused Yank<BR>
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<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 23:49:46 +1300<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: The Rise and Supposed Decline of the RPG Empire<BR>
<BR>
From:           	"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Date sent:      	Thu, 9 Dec 1999 23:14:22 +1300<BR>
<BR>
> On 8 Dec 99, at 17:49, Kyle Schuant wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Come back over here, Kyle. There's effectively no retail outlet for <BR>
> rpgs in the lower North Island (that I know of, anyway). This means <BR>
> that those of us without Credit Cards have no cost effective way of <BR>
> buying new product.<BR>
<BR>
Here in Christchurch there are still two comic shops selling RPGs, but<BR>
they only stock 'mainstream' games (Call of Cthulhu, D&D, Mage et al,<BR>
and GURPS). There was a shop that specialised in RPGs (Mind Games)<BR>
but that folded two years ago. However RPGs do seem to be fairly<BR>
healthy down here in the south.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Andrew etc<BR>
Homepage http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/<BR>
Traveller http://www.downport.com/amv/<BR>
 "What do you expect from a species who's females are<BR>
 always in heat" Ko of the Ilui clan on Humans and honour<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 00:53:00 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Swordworlder<BR>
<BR>
>On Eudora on a Mac, Yfirmaur has an Apple Logo before the 'ur' and <BR>
>Sver has one after the 'Sver'...! Is this official Swordworldese?<BR>
<BR>
You Should try it on the newton...<BR>
my Cable modem is off line, So I am netting off My Newton MP 130. I got<BR>
several Interesting bits.<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis<BR>
on the go with my newton!<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 02:08:00 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re DCX<BR>
<BR>
> given Traveller reaction drives, I think DC-X style<BR>
> VTOL landers would be useful for contested pickups<BR>
> and the like. Any mines in the landing area get<BR>
> detonated before the ship touches down. :-)<BR>
<BR>
See also the CT Broadsword merc Cruiser(aka Happy Fun Ball)<BR>
Also, Needles work best as DC-X type ships<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis<BR>
on the go with my newton!<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 02:08:00 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re DCX<BR>
<BR>
> given Traveller reaction drives, I think DC-X style<BR>
> VTOL landers would be useful for contested pickups<BR>
> and the like. Any mines in the landing area get<BR>
> detonated before the ship touches down. :-)<BR>
<BR>
See also the CT Broadsword merc Cruiser(aka Happy Fun Ball)<BR>
Also, Needles work best as DC-X type ships<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis<BR>
on the go with my newton!<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 02:09:00 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Nobles<BR>
<BR>
Hear! Hear! Brandon! Yayay!<BR>
Nobles of the Imperium, yuk! Scum of the Imperium,<BR>
much better!<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis<BR>
on the go with my newton!<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 02:09:00 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Swordworlder<BR>
<BR>
>On Eudora on a Mac, Yfirmaur has an Apple Logo before the 'ur' and <BR>
>Sver has one after the 'Sver'...! Is this official Swordworldese?<BR>
<BR>
You Should try it on the newton...<BR>
my Cable modem is off line, So I am netting off My Newton MP 130. I got<BR>
several Interesting bits.<BR>
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis<BR>
on the go with my newton!<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 22:25:18 +1100<BR>
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@idx.com.au><BR>
Subject: Just How Charted *is* Charted Space?<BR>
<BR>
I'm looking for sector data*.<BR>
<BR>
What is the status of the information that appeared in 'Vilani and<BR>
Vargr' and 'Solomani and Aslan'?<BR>
<BR>
There were a couple of 'macro maps' showing system position in these<BR>
books. I was wondering if the detailed info actually got published<BR>
anywhere. Can anyone give me any leads?<BR>
<BR>
Continuing on the issue of astrography, has anyone gone through and<BR>
corrected the existing stellar data (to match stars better with the<BR>
worlds that are meant to orbit them, and to clean up all those messy red<BR>
dwarves)?<BR>
<BR>
A final question :-<BR>
Is there a name for the system that is in hex 0933 of Delphi sector?<BR>
<BR>
Robert O'Connor<BR>
Medico, Gamer<BR>
- --------------------<BR>
* I have reasonably accurate info for 56 sectors, from Galactic and<BR>
CORE.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 04:14:49 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: 3D star maps<BR>
<BR>
- --- Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > Still too far. Depending on the speed the ships use, more than 7 <BR>
> > days travel time will make it a jump, and thus a worthwhile target.<BR>
> <BR>
> But as noted in another message, at 206 AU (sorry the 203 was a<BR>
> faulty<BR>
> memory) the place is still faster to *communicate* with. Less than 3<BR>
> days round trip time for a radio or lasercomm message.<BR>
<BR>
True if the map is for comunications rather than travel. You are right <BR>
that your limit makes more sense for comunications but most <BR>
traveller game maps would be more concerned with travel, IMHO.<BR>
Merchant types wanting to know the choices for their next cargo's.<BR>
<BR>
Still, in either case, it is better than .1 parsec.<BR>
<BR>
Terry<BR>
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<BR>
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 12:31:27 GMT<BR>
From: "Jonathan Lupton" <jonathanlupton@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Well guys, there goes our salvage...<BR>
<BR>
>How do people handle salvage rights?  For that matter, how do they work in <BR>
>the real world?<BR>
<BR>
Assuming all ships in your Traveller Universe are registered with a central <BR>
authority and have a Transponder. It should be possible to trace the legal <BR>
owner of any vessel. If the owner was killed when whatever happened to the <BR>
vessel happened then the vessel register should also contain the next of <BR>
kin.<BR>
<BR>
But what if theres outstanding finance?<BR>
If there was money outstanding on the vessel that has not been paid then the <BR>
ship may have been reposessed by the bank in which case the ship register <BR>
will have changed to show the banks ownership. If it hasn't been reposessed <BR>
then the next of kin will inherit a large debt and a wrecked ship.<BR>
<BR>
Insurance?<BR>
If you have found someone insane enough to insure a vessel, and they pay out <BR>
on the policy, the ship now belongs to them and is probably listed on their <BR>
accounts as an asset. But again they would now be listed as the legal owner <BR>
on in the ship register.<BR>
<BR>
So nearly all ships have a legal owner, so whats the point in salvaging. <BR>
Well for some ships it may be impossible to trace the owners in which case <BR>
the ship could become the property of the salvager after a period of time. <BR>
Ships from outside the imperium are eligible for salvage (eg, the Annic Nova <BR>
in DA1). Ships that the issurance companies eventually write off are <BR>
salvageable and if your feeling kind you could allow the salvagers to take <BR>
ownership of any cargo on recovered ships even if an owner is found.<BR>
<BR>
This way the PC's can make some money out of salvage but not so much that <BR>
they have fleets of ships.<BR>
<BR>
J.<BR>
<BR>
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End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1468<BR>
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